Talk:Robin
Silent Protagonist and Protagonist I heard that in Fire Emblem: Awakening you can choose Awakening (Avatar) as a Silent Protagonist or Protagonist is that true?--Cococrash11 (talk) 05:19, October 26, 2012 (UTC) :Yes. What that means is that they have a silent voice.--Countess Reglay (talk) 20:50, October 26, 2012 (UTC) What do you mean by silent voice? Is it someone how like Tactician and replying with yes, no, and options? --Cococrash11 (talk) 22:10, October 26, 2012 (UTC) :There are voice actors in this game for the characters. When you go to create Avatar's profile, you can choose one of the availiable voice actors or pick "silent" which means there won't be any voice acting.--Countess Reglay (talk) 16:31, October 28, 2012 (UTC) Avatar or My Unit? Why have we changed My Unit's name to Avatar?--Countess Reglay (talk) 21:33, October 26, 2012 (UTC)Countess Reglay :It was from the NOA trailer that said "Avatar". 21:47, October 26, 2012 (UTC) Robin? Suggestion: Since Robin is the default name, apparently, should just move this page to Robin (Awakening) (and My Unit (Shin Monshō no Nazo) to Chris). As precedent I'll point out that Bulbapedia uses the default/NPC names for the pages of the player characters and rivals in the Pokemon games Are You Serious (talk) :While the precedent you offered doesn't convince me very much (different wiki, different game), I wish I had seen this proposition sooner, before I was so diligent in making sure I changed all the links (even before the cache had cleared). This might be an even better alternative to the current setup, because in English, "Avatar" needs to be written in context with some kind of article put in front (mainly "the", like "The Avatar", but sometimes "a", like "a Male/Female Avatar"). The thinking regarding the naming at the time time may have been to preserve the connection with the game mechanic, but Otherarrow came up with a solution to the disambig problem we had by making a page just for the game mechanic. The more I think about it, the more I see that your idea might be a good way to go, so I'm going to tenatively agree with you. The only thing that is holding me back a bit is making sure Otherarrow agrees. If you can get him on board by referring him to this thread, that would help. :To sum up: If we did end up doing this, the page naming would be "Avatar" for the game mechanic, "Chris" for FE12 and "Robin (Awakening)" for FE13, with the Avatar disambig page going away, but Chris and Robin mentioned on the game mechanic page--Aivass Remurias (talk) 21:17, December 30, 2012 (UTC) ::I'd also like to add that now that we have a page just for the game mechanic, I think having the Avatar and Chris/Robin separated for gameplay and story purposes, respectively, to be a good idea, which is really the same idea as above. Avatar would really only be used on the Gmechs template and the pages for FE12 and FE13.--Aivass Remurias (talk) 22:03, December 30, 2012 (UTC) ::The past two months has actually changed my opinion on this issue: It is far easier to just mention the default name on their respective pages (FE7 Tactician, FE12-13 Avatar) than to do what I originally proposed. It was wise to adopt a wait and see attitude, I think.--Aivass Remurias (talk) 03:33, February 20, 2013 (UTC) ::Now that the Avatar has been announced as "Robin" in the new Super Smash Bros. games, I think it's time to reconsider naming this article "Robin (Awakening)." We could leave a redirect page with the current name to ensure that the existing links would still reach the intended destination. Kai Ell (talk) 20:33, July 14, 2014 (UTC) :::Robin has always been the Avatar's "default" name. Of course Smash is going to use it. So, no, this doesn't really change anything and adds no incentive as to why we should move it.--Otherarrow (talk) 21:54, July 14, 2014 (UTC) ::::Your stats show that Robin is one of your pages, currently above Marth, Ike and Roy. (As of writing, the top 10 are: Avatar (Awakening), Lucina, Chrom, Fire Emblem: Awakening, List of characters in Fire Emblem: Awakening, Robin, Marth, Ike, Morgan (Awakening), Roy). There's clearly a lot of misclicks heading through your site, almost certainly because of the naming of this page. Googling "Robin Fire Emblem" brings up this page first, but the other "Robin" immediately underneath it (it's not obvious which is which from the extracted text - especially people who've not played Fire Emblem before). Likewise lading at the main page of this site and typing Robin in the search, hits that page as well, which takes another step to get here. The most viewed dropdown has Robin as above. Of course, all of this traffic would be from the Smash Bros announcement, but the same could be said for Roy. It would seem ideal to instead have this page as the main Robin, and the other Robin page put as a disambiguation (e.g. Robin (Gaiden)). Even for people who've played Awakening, "Avatar (Awakening)" is a clunky search term. It would just seem to make sense to rename this page, rather than have huge amounts of traffic redirected at an obscure Gaiden character. Especially since it's now a much more than just a default name (you likely can't re-name "Robin" in Smash, and certainly the smash website and clip use "Robin" over any other term.) Sylvanelite (talk) 04:12, July 15, 2014 (UTC) :::::If the page still manages to come up first in the googling despite it's name, then why is it an issue that it's called Avatar? You basically said "there is no problem with the current page name, but I want it changed anyway because etc etc". The Avatar's name, while it has a default, is changeable by the player, and thus the name for both him, Mark, and Kris should be kept generic so as not to confuse players into thinking that they are "normal", unnameable characters. As for Smash, let me repeat, because you folks seem not to get it: what names Smash uses for FE characters is never taken into consideration for naming pages. It's been shown that the folks working on Smash have only passing knowledge of the names and terms used by the folks localizing the FE games, and a lot of the time, the names and terms used in Smash turn out to be completely different then what the real FE games end up using. For both this reason and consistency across pages, the names Smash uses are at best a footnote.--Otherarrow (talk) 16:48, July 15, 2014 (UTC) ::::(toggling indent to avoid tall-screening, this is a reply to Otherarrow) This page is getting hits, sure, but the gaiden Robin is getting disproportionately more hits than it would given a better navigation structure. Having Robin with more views than Marth and saying "there is no problem" is a short-sighted reply. ::::Mark and Kris are not really relevant to this rename. The fact that they are nameable is only tangentially related. There's essentially zero evidence people are searching for "Mark" and as you say, navigation works there by using the term "tactician". That's not the case for Robin. There's clear evidence people are searching (in high volume) for Robin, and are landing at the wrong page because of it. ::::I would normally agree using a generic name to "avoid confusion" would be the right choice, except when an official name is used in precedence. Which is the case with Robin. If the Smash Bros Character had been called "avatar" or "tactician" then I'd agree with you, but it's not. They chose Robin over other possible names, so it's a valid point that this page should follow the same logic. ::::For the "Smash is wrong", well, maybe in other cases, but in this one they don't seem to be. If you want to bring up reasons why Smash is wrong on other localisations, that's fine, but has little relevance here. (for example, using Binding Blade over Sword of Seals - sure Smash may be inconsistent, but has essentially zero relevance to this topic, since Robin is entirely consistent with Awakening, and playable cast is far more significant than footnote text that appears in the game) ::::I mean, it's your decision ultimately, and you already seem to have your mind set regardless on any reasoning put forward. But I would suggest renaming to improve navigation and get people landing at the right page. If renaming this page isn't an option, then I would suggest making the "Robin" page a disambiguation linking to here and "Robin (Gaiden)" respectively (similar to what searching "Mark" does currently). Sylvanelite (talk) 23:34, July 15, 2014 (UTC) :::::Mark and Kris are very relevant. If we rename one player named avatar character, we gotta rename them all for consistency. (Then again, I tend to think in terms of "oh, how will this affect other things" sorry.) :::::Personally, and forgive me if this sounds super rude, I don't see why you are making a big deal about "hits" (especially when, by your own analysis, this page still gets more than the Gaiden page going by its higher google ranking) and the fact that you want to completely redo how we name Avatar unit pages solely so that the hits go to the right place in this one case reeks of slightly skewed priorities to me. However, I will admit, the idea of a Robin disambig (and indeed, a disambig for any character with a reused name) is probably better than just a note on a page and will direct folks to the right way slightly quicker. (and at most, we'd have to move Gaiden Robin in this case) :::::Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt, but what Smash does with names is none of our concern. We are not a Smash Wiki, we are a Fire Emblem Wiki. If they want to call him Robin, sure, I don't blame them for doing so. Makes sense, since I highly doubt they will implement the Avatar creation process. However, in order to maintain consistency with how the wiki treats other Smash related terms (originally arisen due to the dubious history of Smash using FE related terms, even if not here or there in this case), I don't see why we should move the page just to match what Smash does. I guess it's a matter of which series has higher priority in our scope, plus a precedent set by Smash's different choice of translations. :::::Thank you for talking this out with me, and sorry for the trouble. You do have some points, even if I disagree or not really get where you are coming from.--Otherarrow (talk) 01:26, July 16, 2014 (UTC) Oh so what makes Yu Narukami, Flynn, and the other Protagonists from Shin Megami Tensei so special. You had to use their default name in that wiki but in this wiki you wouldn't want to change it into their default name. --Cococrash11 (talk) 23:15, July 14, 2014 (UTC) ::Different wikis go by different rules. You can't hold up one wiki to another wiki's set up. The rules of the SMT Wiki says use default names, the rules of the FE Wiki says don't. The communities of both wikis decided on these rulings.--Otherarrow (talk) 16:48, July 15, 2014 (UTC) :::Then just change the rules. Neither of the 2 wiki's rules are any good. In fact I don't care the rules of this wiki but I'll abide to it. --Cococrash11 (talk) 00:13, July 16, 2014 (UTC) ::::I can't "just change the rules". If rules could be arbitrarily changed, why even have them?--Otherarrow (talk) 01:26, July 16, 2014 (UTC) :::::Why arbitrarily follow rules that no longer make sense? Other than "It would take a while to change all the pages" is there any real reason not to change them to Kris/Robin, especially when other sources wouldd indicate that those are their canon names? Are You Serious (talk) 15:37, July 18, 2014 (UTC) ::::::If I start following rules that no longer make sense, I'll let you know of my reasoning. As for the unrelated topic at hand: I already explained my reasoning for sticking to "Avatar" over "Kris/Mark/Robin" already and don't feel like repeating myself. Also, one person can't just decide policy for a whole wiki on reasoning as flimsy as yours. How irresponsible do you think we are? (At least Sylvanelite thought his point through.)--Otherarrow (talk) 17:54, July 18, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::Just now seeing all of this...I guess it was inevitable, eh? All the newly "awakened" interest (pardon the pun) in FE per FE13 and this Wikia and I guess there would be those that would want this, because "well, the Smash Bros game is doing it, so...yeah...use Robin, y'all...#doingitwrong". Now, don't get me wrong, though; a good bit of digging on this site, and you'll see that I was pretty vocal about the whole "Avatar/Kris/Robin" discussion, and I believe I was one of, if not the first, to argue for the move to Robin/Kris, etc. I then dropped the issue almost overnight, largely because of all excruciatingly tedious work of correcting/updating all linked/unlinked words, template moves, page moves, etc post-FE13 legacy name bombshell left a bad taste in my mouth when bots can make our lives so much easier on these respects. When I saw how much resistance I encountered in my attempts to actually get more bots and make better use of Wikia features wothout stepping on any toes/going over people's heads, I just sort of threw my hands up and relented the point. Many are those who want this or that moved here or there, but hardly ever are they aware of all the work that is involved, or the willingness to do it, and do it right. ::::::::TD;LR -> I'm not exactly a fan of this, esp. since it looked like the page was ultimately moved. Probably going to regret being so frank about this later, but #yolo I suppose haha. But whatev I guess...--Aivass Remurias (talk) 06:20, July 22, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::Props to Otherarrow for championing the resistance to this particular change. I must admit I'm still in that camp after reading the arguments from the other side of the fence.--Aivass Remurias (talk) 06:24, July 22, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::Well, in my own opinion as the person who worked pretty extensively on ALL of the Awakening pages, I'm really indifferent to the problem here. Really? Are we seriously gonna argue the name of the page? Like Aivass said, most of the people arguing here have barely done any edits to the Avatar/Robin page itself. Also bringing in other wikis is not a good argument because different Wikis have different rules. Heck the bulbapedia version of Fire Emblem uses the name "Avatar (Awakening)" for their page for "Robin". Your argument on that point is invalid. Anyways, seriously, why are we arguing this?–Nauibotics (talk) 06:39, July 22, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::I'm surprised at your position on this, actually, but I greatly respect your opinion on anything FE13, /especially/ the FE13 character pages. You have done much to make them fantastic. And I think you're right.--Aivass Remurias (talk) 07:27, July 22, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Thanks for being rational! It's not that I'm not unwilling to do the massive amount of moves, but it is a huge and tedious task to do having to rework the links. If they are gonna fight this then they better do all of the work since they're being so adamant about it, because I'm not fighting for it so I'm not gonna do it. I'm just sick of this debate. Either way we know who we are talking about when we say both Avatar (Awakening) or Robin. Why do double work?–Nauibotics (talk) 07:44, July 22, 2014 (UTC) Class Sets? I was wondering about the "Class Sets" section. Does that represent possible class changes for the Avatar? (Like in Shadow Dragon.) Or is it something different? While having different classes available for your custom character would be awesome... i'm just happy with the amount of customization they've offered as it is. -Spartan075 :It represents all the classes the Avatar can be reclassed into. Meaning, the Avatar can reclass into any non-unique class.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:39, January 8, 2013 (UTC) Could Use Some Advice Ok, so when I get Awakening I plan on reclassing my avatar to Myrmidon and then promoting him to Assassin (Scince Assassin seems to be the only class that uses swords and bows and is not mounted) anyway I was hoping someone could give me advice on what I should pick as my best and worst stat for best results of my plan? Tiero (talk) 22:05, January 18, 2013 (UTC) :Probably speed for best, I'm not sure for worst. --Rain that Drops on Earth (talk) 20:29, March 9, 2013 (UTC) ::Luck is semi useful but I highly recommend that that be the flawNauibotics (talk) 21:37, March 9, 2013 (UTC) "They" vs "S/he" There is something that needs to be sorted out. And that's whether we should refer to the Avatar using pronouns like "S/he" or "Himself/Herself" vs using "They" and "Themselves." This was brought to my attention by another user who said that using the former is better, which I don't mind. I personally don't care which we use, but it's better to get a general consensus regarding this issue or just a word from the moderator for their insight of this issue, rather than having an editing war. Nauibotics (talk) 01:42, February 20, 2013 (UTC) :I'm glad that you brought this up. For what it's worth (admittedly, not too much), my two cents is that I think it was done on a case-by-case basis before. There are some wiki articles that address this. Those should be helpful.--Aivass Remurias (talk) 03:33, February 20, 2013 (UTC) ....Mark the spoilers? Um, yeah. There's these great things, you guys, they're called spoiler tags. Think any should be added on this page maybe....? I dunno, in case, say... Someone has his or her story experience totally ruined by finding out that your Avatar is Validar's son and all... No? No one's experience could be ruined by that? Oh, okay. . . . Sarcasm aside. Yes, this happened to me. To whoever wrote this article with his/her liberal lack of use of spoiler tags, thank you, honestly. Okay, that's still sarcasm, sorry. Honestly though, this game JUST came out. Is there really no one who thinks people who might be reading this MIGHT perchance NOT want to know all the later-game spoilerrific juicy meaty details...? ...That's hypothetical naturally, of course there fucking are. Not that anyone wants to please me specifically, but I'd love it if someone could rectify this, on this page and like, all the pages guilty of flaunting spoilers. Or, I could just run through all the pages that have spoiled things for me and make it just painfully, jarringly obvious. Blademaster Banryu (talk) 05:00, March 12, 2013 (UTC) Anyone who can read a wiki about a game and not expect spoilers is very, very gullible. Don't want to get spoiled and have others ruin your game experience? Go to serenes forest. Brainwasher5 (talk) 15:34, March 12, 2013 (UTC) Perhaps you can forgive me for thinking that I'd be able to look up harmless information without having to risk running into spoilers. I guess it's my own FUCKING fault for ambling on down to the Trivia section, huh? I SURE SHOULD HAVE EXPECTED THAT THERE'D BE MAJOR SPOILERS THERE. Understand, it's not that I'm not expecting to run into spoilers. The difference is that other wikis use these great things called spoiler tags that still seem entirely foreign to you people, so's that I'm warned about impending spoilers and I know to skip that section. The difference here is that I don't know when I'm bumping into a spoiler until it's already too late. Forgive me again for thinking that the writers of this wiki, like many other wikis, might have regard enough for their readers to make it clearer when exactly someone might be encountering MAJOR, SEVERE plot spoilers. No instead, it's written like ever person reading it has completed the entire game and already knows all the spoilerrific details. I know it's the duty of a wiki writer to spread knowledge and all, and I appreciate all the information that is shown on here, really, but there's something to be said for the factor of restraint, which is all but completely absent in the entirety of this wiki so far as I've read. 'Go to serenes forest.' Not that it isn't also a great resource, but there's no fucking way I'd have known to go there instead of here to avoid spoilers until it was already too late. So a lot of fucking good that does me or anyone else. Thank you, though, for confirming what I thought in the first place (yet hoped was not the case), which is that you people in fact don't have any fucks to give at all. Blademaster Banryu (talk) 17:08, March 12, 2013 (UTC) :The front page basically says "there are spoilers. Read at your own risk". The community decided that a.with that warning on the front page, spoiler tags would be redundant, and b.the spoiler tags would just draw more attention to them. I honestly don't see why we would want to hide or outright omit information out of fear of spoiling someone. We are a FE Wiki. Our job is to cover the game, spoilers and all. You don't want to be spoiled? Skip the plot info and go to the stats. You really have no one to blame but yourself. If you didn't want to be spoiled, don't go reading the sections where there are likely to be spoilers.--Otherarrow (talk) 17:43, March 12, 2013 (UTC) :I hear what you're saying, but I must disagree with the logic of finding the tags redundant. In talking of the warning on the front page, it's brief and potentially easy to miss (I missed it, but I'm also not the most observant person, so maybe we can call the fact that I missed it an odd case). Furthermore, between the option of having spoiler tags in every page and the option having the broad, vague, applied-to-all spoiler warning on just the front page, the former is more thorough and reliable while the latter makes for a lot less work. Also, isn't it possible that 'the community' decided on the front-page spoiler warning to opt out of having to do more work adding spoiler tags into individual pages? I know writing a wiki is a lot of work, and I'm prepared to give you guys the benefit of the doubt on this one, but still... :As for the other point being made, If someone is coming to the wiki for the purpose of looking up spoilers, then drawing attention to them doesn't really do that person any harm at all, since he/she already wanted to spoil it for him/herself in the first place. Conversely, if an individual like myself, who wants to wait to experience the story for him/herself, comes across the page and sees the spoiler tags, he/she knows not to read any further and avoid that part of the page. :Regarding my own experience with the spoilers on this wiki, most of the ones I encountered weren't even in a plot section (despite the example I gave with the Avatar page in the first few paragraphs of the plot, I admit that was a poor example). But looking at my other examples... I had the Black Knight's identity spoiled for me at the very top of Greil's page, (not even getting into the plot, it's his quote and his introduction that blatantly reveal this key plot point) and on the Avatar page, I had the fact that Validar is the player's father spoiled for me by reading the TRIVIA (where I initially skipped the plot to go straight to the stats, like you suggested, and ended up reading down to that section). :In other words, I was already taking your advice before you gave it, treading very carefully around areas that I expected would contain spoilers, even though they were not marked. In the end, it didn't do me any good and these things were spoiled for me regardless. Do you see where I'm coming from here? :Blademaster Banryu (talk) 20:02, March 12, 2013 (UTC) ::Oh, in defense of the Avatar trivia, that trivia point was bullshit anyway and I removed it. I do feel that it was spoilers for the sake of spoilers, and added thoughtlessly. As for Greil, yeah, I'll work to fix that. Things are set up so that most of the spoilery story info is in its own section with the other story info, but it does slip through the cracks (sometimes, like in the trivia you mentioned, people being stupid.) If you see it, feel free to remove it or rephrase it to be less spoilerly. We are a wiki after all.--Otherarrow (talk) 20:11, March 12, 2013 (UTC) I think that would be a great start, thank you. I've been pretty busy lately, but if I see anything that I think I could phrase better, maybe I'll get working on making some pages a bit less spoilercentric. Blademaster Banryu (talk) 22:19, March 14, 2013 (UTC) :Looking up information on characters and somehow not expecting there to be spoilers in areas like plot and support is in no way our fault. You want to deal with not having spoilers, don't look up information about a game (ESPECIALLY its characters) before playing said game. :Also, chill out. It's just a game. If you strictly want information regarding gameplay itself, without the story attached, go to serenes forest. It's a great database with absolutely zero spoilers. By the way, "you people" denotes anyone who can edit this wiki, who is, you know, everyone. If you don't like something about standards on a wiki, then change it. Otherwise, then it's really too bad if you don't like what you read. You don't pay us to write this; we are in no way obligated to conform a wiki to your specific needs and standards. Brainwasher5 (talk) 20:08, March 12, 2013 (UTC) :yeah the lack of spoiler warnings are kinda ruining the game for me. Orcaboy (talk) 22:55, March 21, 2013 (UTC) :also i didn't know the Avatar is Validar's son thing so um even without the wiki ruining it you kinda did....Orcaboy (talk) 13:09, March 22, 2013 (UTC) :Well, stop reading the wiki. If I didn't want spoilers, I wouldn't be on a wiki in the first place. Even if I wasnted mechanics. You go to a FAQ for that, or a walkthrough. 14:25, March 22, 2013 (UTC) :It's not really within your rights (whoever you are, anonymous person) to tell someone to read or not read the wiki. Actually, if I were a wiki writer, I'd be wanting people to read it, speaking for myself. The wiki has good information and I think it's perfectly within the rights of the reader to be able to access certain information without having to be exposed to spoilers. Having spoilers in the story section is more or less unavoidable, as I realized, but in sections like the Introduction and Trivia and such, people aren't really going to be expecting spoilers, and thus aren't going to be able to skip them. Thus, it would be VERY NICE (read: not lazy) if there were spoiler tags marking certain sections of certain pages, if not the entire page itself (which as you people say is more or less common sense). :However, I really don't think that a single (very tiny) spoiler warning on the front page is sufficient to warn someone about the entire wiki beyond just saying 'don't read it' like a dick. The wiki is there for people to read, they should be able to avoid spoilers in certain sections if they so desire to. :EDIT: Even though I wasn't particularly serious about the laziness comment, if that IS an issue then I'd be more than happy to go through the wiki and mark all the spoilers myself, at least to where Awakening is concerned (since that's the most recent international game and people have been very liberal with spoiler leakage in most pages). :Blademaster Banryu (talk) 17:45, April 2, 2013 (UTC) ::Honestly, you read a giant block of text, it's pretty obvious that said giant block of text with story event headings was about the plot, not to the game mechanics, you're just trying to find fault in something besides yourself for walking off a cliff at this point.KainDarkfire (talk) 18:01, March 22, 2013 (UTC) ::Seriously? We're going to be talking about rights here? It is not your right to order us around to conform to a standard that you have envisioned into your head. It is not your right to just walk in here and insult us for being lazy (because obvisouly you're the one that's doing the editing and qualitative and quantitative updates here) without doing any work whatsoever yourself. It is completely within OUR (us editors) rights to not have to listen to or comply with your orders and complaints. You want to see a change in a wiki, YOU do it. That's why wikis are information sources anyone can edit. You telling us that we're lazy and that it is your right to access information without spoiling yourself sure as hell is not convincing anyone to do your bidding. Not satisfied with the information here? Then walk away, or edit it yourself. Brainwasher5 (talk) 15:17, April 4, 2013 (UTC) ::@ 'It is completely within OUR (us editors) rights to not have to listen to or comply with your orders and complaints. ' ::Sure it is. (...is not being sarcastic) No I mean that, it it really is. And I wasn't meaning to frame my requests as orders (if I did, then I'm at fault for that and I acknowledge it as such). ::HOWEVER. ::When you (not you specifically, but any given person in general) says 'don't like it? TOUGH, don't read it then' - - - - > ...THAT is fucking laziness, brother. Saying 'boohoo don't read it' is akin to saying 'I don't care if it's flawed, I don't want to change it'. Which, yeah, is a matter of not wanting to do something regardless of whether it would improve the quality. And it just makes whoever says it look fucking lazy. So yeah, it's within one's rights to ignore requests that sound stupid, as an editor should, and it's also completely within one's rights to ignore all suggestions regardless of whether they'll improve the quality of the resource in question. Granted, a wiki is more of an exception to this than other created content on the internet, given that it's written by effectively everyone on the internet. (For some reason I got the impression that wikis had a sort of unofficial staffing to them, but apparently I was mistaken, and I have no idea where I got that thought from). ::In the instance of spoilers, several people seem to think that marking spoilers WOULD make the wiki a better resource, yeah. ::In any case, so long as the discussion is 'don't YOU be lazy, do it yourself if you think it needs to be done' as opposed to 'no fuck it spoilers don't need to be marked by anyone', then I won't disagree with that. Supposing that I actually have the time to do so, I will be more than happy to do that myself. I personally am simply trying to make the point that the careful handling plot-sensitive information should not be ignored by the FE wiki's writers as it has been previously on a few pages (not all, granted). ::Again, I'll do what I can to handle it when I have time for it. ::Blademaster Banryu (talk) 04:46, April 10, 2013 (UTC) :::I'd like to underscore that this is little more than a tempest in a teacup. It's worth repeating that the Main page gives a warning. FAQs are abundant for those who want to complete the game their way. We usually receive viewers afterwards, or for a second playthrough. The policies of yesterday remain true to this day.--Aivass Remurias (talk) 10:06, April 11, 2013 (UTC) Opinionated information "Among the many to select from, the best skills to take are Armsthrift, Renewal, Lifetaker, Aegis/Pavise, Slow Burn/Quick Burn, and most occult skills." I feel that this is pointless to add. What skills are most beneficial is mostly up to the player. For example, I can easily say from this list that Armsthrift is not very useful as you can buy practically any weapon and you have unlimited money in the form of bullion collected from risen. I could argue that Astra should be on this list as it increases your damage output by at least 2.5x if activated. I could say that slow burn is not very useful given how most maps can be finished in less than 15 turns, in which case Lucky Seven is more useful. Given the huge variety of useful skills in this game, I say that we scrap this sentence. What do you guys think? Brainwasher5 (talk) 15:38, March 12, 2013 (UTC) :If you think info is wrong/over-opinionated, feel free to remove/fix it of your own volition. I don't think the game has been out long enough for consensus for this kind of thing to build anyway. I'd do it myself, but I don't have the game yet. Such is life...--Otherarrow (talk) 20:14, March 12, 2013 (UTC) ::You're right, and I'm sorry. However I will argue about the usefulness of Armsthrift. The Bullion farming isn't so easy unless you're on Easy. Reeking boxes cost 4800 gold on Hard, meaning aside from random generated Risen, you won't be farming Bullions as much as you do in Easy without DLC since most skirmishes will only give you 1 or 2 Bullion (S) meaning only about 2000 gold per map barely under half the price of a box. Armsthrift helps save funds for those who can't become that and also preserves Regalia items. Take for example, Owain's Missletainn. There's only 1 in the game and once he breaks that, you'll need the DLC chapter, Infinite Regalia to get another. If he inherits Mercenary and gets Armsthrift, it can last longer, or if he's the son of Donnel, once his Luck is maxed, then the weapon will lose no durability. Course again, this is subjective, but Armsthrift is not useless. Astra is qualified as a occult skill (aka an attack skill.) However I realized soon that you're right about the Burn skills. Anyways I won't change it back, because like you said, it's really up to the players.Nauibotics (talk) 01:33, March 13, 2013 (UTC) :::Well, not counting that the first DLC being free for X amount of time, and being able to farm items from the two villages to use or sell and two event tiles to potentially pick up items from... you can still use Bonus Box battles to use world map event tiles, it's tedious, but you get Renown and chances to pick up any item in the game excluding special weapons. But, uh, wait, so things are cheaper in Normal mode? Because the prices between Hard and Lunatic are the same.KainDarkfire (talk) 18:01, March 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::But like you said, it's tedious and we have to assume that everyone will NOT have DLC. It's unreliable and there lies the usefulness of Armsthrift. Again, it's to preserve funds and preserve regalia items. That's the biggest purpose. And the only price change in the game is a Reeking Box and that's only between Easy and Hard. On Easy it's 500 gold, Hard and above is 4800 gold.--Nauibotics (talk) 19:27, March 13, 2013 (UTC) :::::I'd like to note that we're talking about the Avatar, not Donney/Owain/Missletainn, which TBH I wasn't impressed with, but hey, welcome to the opinionated section. :D I'm your host, Mr. "Youpaidfourtybucksalreadywhatstwomore" you can call me Capitalism for short. On a more serious note, Armsthrift is fine for progression purposes (alternatively, Despoil, for your money needs), but I'd much rather have another defensive skill when you're talking about builds. Especially Pavise, considering almost all of the enemies use one of those weapons, and I'm really disappointed that there aren't a ton of Risen Taguel, considering that there's clearly a lot of potential ones.KainDarkfire (talk) 19:59, March 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Sorry, but it's the best example I could give, if not we could say that it can be used to preserve Book of Naga's on the Avatar. Sorry, I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just defending Armsthrift's usefulness and a lot of people on SerenesForest agree that it is a really good skill, though not as much as Galeforce. I can agree to Despoil is a good alternative though for funds, good point, but it cannot regenerate the Regalia, aside from a Hammerne staff, which is the most important thing I'm stressing with Armsthrift. You can have a ton of gold, but no amount of gold can get you a Regalia once it's used up without DLC. But other than that, of course, defensive skills or even passive skills are great skills. It's not like I planned on clearing a game with only Armsthrift on whatever units can get them. But it does has it's merits. Heck, I still have the same forged Thoron tome I've had since about two weeks ago because of Amsthrift.--Nauibotics (talk) 20:37, March 13, 2013 (UTC) ::I dunno, but some people have been playing it, and have been figuring out some optimal builds for the Avatar (and usually Morgan and the children, as they receive more stats and usually have more class/gender opposite skills to play with.) Personally, my favorite so far is the male Dread Fighter Skill Avatar with Lifetaker/Gamble/Swordfaire/Lethality/Pavise. Still gets 32% critical chance with a forged Killing Edge on most stat capped enemies, not counting support bonuses, and 11% chance to insta-kill while not being a glass cannon.KainDarkfire (talk) 23:46, March 12, 2013 (UTC) ::@Nauibotics regarding the scarcity of money: Despoil more than helps make up for reeking boxes, especially if the character has high luck. With Leif's Blade (which has despoil built into it) and, say Donnel who always caps his luck (which is like, 50) along with Rally Luck and Rally Spectrum, Donnel's guaranteed to get at least 2 or 3 bullion per map on top of the small bullion you normally get. Together with armsthrift (I'm still not saying that it's a good skill for a serious map, it's just a nice little utility skill for non-serious maps) you essentially will never break leif's blade even if you wanted to. ::Also, killing risen is a simple matter even on hard mode after you get past the first 6 levels or so, so even if you don't have Leif's Blade or despoil you can always kill those risen. I don't know about lunatic or lunatic+ though. Brainwasher5 (talk) 15:41, March 22, 2013 (UTC) No Harvest Scramble Conversations for the Avatar I hear the Avatar is the only original character who will never have any conversations with any of these characters, at all. Is it true? 'Cause if it is, well, that sucks. If I had that game, then I would set the Avatar out, because no conversations means no battle for him/her. I would say "Sorry, Avatar, but you're not invited. I'm afraid I'll have to set you out of the battle, for now, at least." Yeah, that would be me saying that. -- DevilX90 (talk) 16:20, April 28, 2013 (UTC) :Nope, the Avatar has none for the Harvest Scramble. However they do have conversations for the Beach and Hot-spring ones. Unfortunate, but aw well. But they aren't the only ones. Basilio and Flavia don't get in on the Harvest fun as well as the spotpass characters.—Nauibotics (talk) 23:39, April 28, 2013 (UTC) :Uh huh, that's what I thought! When I get that game, I'll have to set the Avatar, as well as Basilio, Flavia, and the rest of the Spotpass characters, out of this battle. Sorry, but the Avatar will be of no use for a battle without any conversations. Those with the conversations, especially Morgan, are welcomed. They couldn't even give the Avatar any for any Xenologue else to make it up to them. Talk about "disappointing". (Sigh) That sucks. -- DevilX90 (talk) 17:07, April 28, 2013 (UTC) Troubles with the "Avatar" page Seems to be some problems with the "Avatar page". Reading the text a bit will explain itself. Looks like some bloke had fun meddling on the page. http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar_(Awakening) 20:55, August 4, 2013 (UTC)Mr. Wellman :Taken care of, thanks to the more vigilante users. Also, I blocked the guys who did it.--Otherarrow (talk) 03:37, August 5, 2013 (UTC) Children hair colors :P Does anyone have an actual pic of Yarne with green hair? Thanks ^-^. --Kaylovessims4 (talk) 02:10, January 21, 2014 (UTC) The reason why I put it under the "Avatar" talk section is because I'd like either Avatar Hair Color 04 or 14 (preferably the latter), and I want it NAO, ASAP! you can take your time. Sorry for bothering. ᴖᴥᴖ ᵔᵜᵔ Kaylovessims4 (talk) 07:15, March 9, 2014 (UTC) Dead? I don't recall it saying anywhere that Grima kills the Avatar to control him. In fact, in the Future Past, they're clearly alive to fight back against Grima before Lucina strikes him down. So what gives? KainDarkfire (talk) 11:47, January 30, 2015 (UTC) I,am also confused about the Original Future Robin.. there is some theories implying that the memories the present robin got from grima-robin was implied to be Future robin purposefully leaking memories to his present counterpart as gamble to stop grima. of course it is just a theory.i think it is a forced merger.(TRFH0) There's no implications of that at all, even with the attempted attack/possession on current Robin which knocks them out in the field. That is to say, there's nothing that happens in the story from that point on that implies that they had some sort of insider knowledge, just things they piece together themselves from first hand experience. In either case, Robin doesn't seem to 'die' in any of the scenarios, just Grima possessed/controlled, however temporary. KainDarkfire (talk) 14:39, May 11, 2015 (UTC) true but it seem odd that robin had only have the memory of him killing chrom from grima robin... why that memory. it can not just be for plot purposes. in fire emblem there is no coincidence. their is no evidence to rule out future robin may have intentially leaked memories to present robin. grima had no knowledge that he leaked memories to robin. as I said before it is just a theory. (TRFH0) Ah, you have a point, though I figured that was an opening plot for the player, not actually Robin's memory. Even them knowing Chrom's name can be explained away simply by celebrisy. They don't act surprised to SEE Chrom, for starters, and even figuring out when he was to betray Chrom was a combination of being controlled a previous time and Lucina wanting to kill them. KainDarkfire (talk) 12:11, May 12, 2015 (UTC) there is no evidence to suggest present robin even know of chrom. the present robin memory was wiped. he initially forgetten his own name and does not remember his mother or what he did before grima robin tried to posses him. they do not act surprised? YOU forgot he inherited some of the leaked memories. it is more likely that those memories is the reason why they feel familiar around chrom . celebrisy has nothing to with that and is not a valid reason. robin even admitted those memories was one of the main reason why knew what was coming. without those memories he would not know when weaken his own magic while being controlled before attacking chrom.(TRFH0) There's no evidence either way. Though clearly all of his tactical and class knowledge remained, just worldly points. Claiming "Leaked memories" with no solid proof and saying I forgot is a big logical strawman. Celebrisy has everything to do with it, as Robin was in a field in Ylisse, meaning he likely would have known political figures before getting mind wiped. Just because you don't like a reason doesn't automatically reject it as plausible, either. Oh, and it and I explain just fine whyRobin realized that critical moment, don't need to try and hash on the same point with the same broken logic. On that note, this topic has gotten way out of hand, this is about the legitimacy of "Does Robin 'die' to Grima", not "Things we assume about the plot devices in game".KainDarkfire (talk) 07:29, May 26, 2015 (UTC) memory can vary. a person may still know how to fight despite memory loss and only remembered the basic of fighting. I have already shown you evidence of leaked memories. grima was not aware of those memories going to the present robin. celebricy has nothing to do with anything. his memories regarding chrom would not powerful enough. He can not even remember his mother. again you failed to make a valid point it has nothing to do with me not liking the reason, your claim simply hold no evidence. how would Robin know political figures. I understand he know of them. but not be familiar with them enough where he just remember chrom name. you are only ignoring evidence. explain how the memories leaked into present robin without grima's knowledge. he would be familiar with chrom because of future robin friendship with future chrom. not to mention getting the memory of his possessed future counterpart killing chrom . that is a powerful memory.(TRFH0) Enough. You've made your off-topic statement clear, as have I, all we're going to do is talk over each other's points ad infinitium due to an abhorant lack of evidence and the routes of both branches of logic. And what does this have to do with Grima killing Robin? Nothing. 03:55, May 31, 2015 (UTC) off topic? enough? I have provided real evidence. you on the other hand provided no evidence. next come up with valid evidence and A REAL argument and NOT just changing the subject because you bitting on more than you chew. AS I STATED BEFORE IT WAS ONLY A THEORY. (THRH0) This main character seems to be similar to Julius. Does anyone want to mention why they think why the Avatar from awakening is an alternate version of Julius from Genealogy Of The Holy War SSB4 I was thinking, because the Avatar doesn't have an official artwork for awakening, like Ike, we could have the Smash 4 render as the main image. Possibly, the same for Marth and Lucina since the render is their newest artworks too. Also, while I'm on the topic, should the GIr artworks be the main image for Tharja, Chrom etc. Ajitunes13. : :As stated in our policy, I believe it's not sensible to replace Fire Emblem characters' artwork with ones from games other than the main series. -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 15:19, October 17, 2015 (UTC) Female Robin and inheritance The current article states that Robin will '''always '''have two children unless Robin marries a child character or a character that can only pair with Robin. This is absolutely not true. The following characters can marry Robin, are '''not '''child characters '''and '''can marry '''other '''characters, but will only produce one child: Frederick, Virion, Stahl, Vaike, Kellam, Donnel, Lon'Qu, Ricken, Gaius, Gregor, Libra, Henry. The paragraph does not account for the fact that robin can be female, and that males not named Chrom do not have children of their own. I'm not going to engage in a revert war over this, but this should be correctedKyazutheinsane (talk) 04:17, January 26, 2016 (UTC) :It doesn't say that Robin always has a second child. It says if they have a second child, they, along with Morgan, have the ability to reclass into all applicable classes. However, I do not know who added that second line. Nevertheless I'll fix this so it flows better and addresses that thing. I appologize for that earlier.—Nauibotics (talk) 04:52, January 26, 2016 (UTC) Conflicting Canon Info Turns out there is info in the Art of Awakening that reveals that Avatar's brand is on left hand, not the right, and that it is called the Brand of Defile. The Brand of Defile cannot be seen by anyone but the members of the Grimaleal. Not even Avatar could see it. This obviously contracts some info given in the game itself, and not to mention we've seen the brand on the right hand in game. What are we going to do about this info? Chrom and the others don't see it either.